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Theology Musings and more's avatar

I'm in Ch 23 of Heiser's book The Unseen Realm, so I've read all the info you are referring to here. I'm actually in Proverbs for my own reading, and noticed Proverbs 8 as well.

As you said... Progressive revelation. Of course the original audience wouldn't think Trinity. That was beyond their understanding. I'm still not comfortable with the idea that "let us make..."is referring to God speaking to his divine council (which I believe is true from what I've read). I still believe God is speaking within the Godhead. We are made in the image of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit...the entirety of God. Not in the image of God AND his council. The angels are not the image we're made into. Even if they can be referred to as elohim.

I need to finish the book so I can discuss it with my Dad who gave it to me!

Question - are you going to tackle the Nephilim quandary?

Kevin Potter's avatar

I completely understand that discomfort. My answer to it is that I don't think the "let us make" is really an invitation to participate. I believe it is merely an announcement of what God intended and an invitation to be present for it. And the phrasing when He actually creates supports that.

And in regards to your question about nephilim, yes! I've talked about that question in a few articles before but the next one in the Divine Council series will be specifically addressing the question of the nephilim in the Divine Council framework.

Heretics Anonymous's avatar

Interesting! So what I’m reading is that in the beginning, YHWH created the world through the logos and the logos became flesh in the person of Yeshua, his Son.

Another interesting thing I found out – in the Colossian scripture you quoted the Greek says he was the first born of creation. The Greek word means of and “over“ is an interpretive choice but not original meaning.

Kevin Potter's avatar

Well, the thing about that is the word "of" isn't in the next. Neither is "over." They are words that we add so it can make grammatical sense in English.

Ultimately, the various translations render it the way they do based on interpretations of what the case and context mean.

And with that understanding, without getting deep into the weeds of Greek grammar, there are a few different perfectly defensible ways to translate it.

The NKJV and NIV both translate it as "over" and there are good grammatical reasons for that. Especially given the context of the next verse.

Constance Witten's avatar

This was helpful to me. I have read much of Michael Heiser with mixed feelings and your assessment of his mistake provided insight.

Kevin Potter's avatar

Thank you! I'm grateful that it's been helpful.

David Millward's avatar

We are made in their images comprising spirit, power and wisdom.

Each creation party provides a percentage of their intrinsic elements is how I interpret it

Some years ago I had a powerful experience - beyond a vision - where after praying in the spirit for several hours, amongst many others doing likewise, I was in the spirit when the Spirit of Wisdom appeared. She was on a throne having golden hair and a diadem of gold set with sapphires and she was smiling down on me.

That's something I will always treasure.

Sarah's avatar

Good insights. Looking forward to part 5.